Caffeinated Thoughts - Latest Comments in How Much Do You Have to Hate…

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

HiScrivener — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:16:47 -0000

Out of the mouths of babes... even grizzly, Neanderthalish ones.

<abbr>HiScriveners last blog post..Even Jesus goes home for the holidays</abbr>

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

Chris (Jesdisciple) — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:18:04 -0000

Jason, I would like to read your exploration/explanation of how Jesus and his apostles agree(d) with your emphasis.

<abbr>Chris (Jesdisciple)s last blog post..Churches in the World</abbr>

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

Societyvs — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:16:38 -0000

"Dang, Jason. We define Hell differently too?" (Steve)

I think there is 'hell' now and thats of most importance - but I also think there is an afterlife. As for hell - I think we need to deal with that now - its a message of helping someone to better their lives. I am not against evangelization per se - if people want to share door to door or on the streets that's cool - its not my focus in life.

"If I had good news like that (and I do) I would be a complete jerk not sharing it" (Shane)

In a way I agree Shane - if I had the answers to some people's problems and they approached me with these concerns - to not share some solutions for that problem would be selfish (and in a way - mean). But for me - my faith is about dealing with morals and direct problems - not some basic original sin mentality and the atonement. For me, the atonement is very complete - what needs to be shared is Jesus' insight into God and humanity (and I find this approach has worked excellently).

<abbr>Societyvss last blog post..#300 Post - Do They Know It’s Christmas Time (at all)</abbr>

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

Digital Publius — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:04:02 -0000

Good post Shane, I have had this very same discussion with people over the years.

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

Rebekah — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 05:34:11 -0000

All I can say is, WOW. This video really makes you think.

<abbr>Rebekahs last blog post..Van Johnson - end of a Golden Era</abbr>

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

Steve — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 04:04:35 -0000

I think it would be good for this generation of Christians to reexamine what biblical (agape) love is.

It necessarily involves action, sacrifice, others-centeredness, and an unconditional quality. And it's difficult to love people if you don't value them.

We're told to love one another, love our enemies and love our neighbor as ourselves. How can I love my neighbor, who is without Christ, and fail to communicate the coming wrath and the possibility of being reconciled with God?

I can't.

If there is no effort or desire on my part to share Christ with my neighbors, it is difficult to assert that I love them.

So I think that's really the issue here. We need our hearts stirred to love as Jesus loves. We need to repent of our lovelessness and inaction. We should be weeping for the lost.

Great video.

<abbr>Steves last blog post..The Intersection of Theology and Experience</abbr>

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

Shane Vander Hart — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:47:21 -0000

@Dave - yes that was pretty incredible. Don't expect hearing such things from atheists.

@Rachel and @Andy - Amen

@Steve - I agree that in many circles the focus is the temporal, not the eternal.

@SocietyVs - I don't think Steve has his ethics confused. He isn't saying meeting practical needs is not important or that we shouldn't do it. Just that eternity lasts a heck of a lot longer than our lifetimes on earth and we would be remiss not to share about how one can know they can have eternal life.

If I had good news like that (and I do) I would be a complete jerk not sharing it.

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

Les M — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 07:18:11 -0000

Amazing video. Much food for thought!!!

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

Steve — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 04:36:56 -0000

Dang, Jason. We define Hell differently too?

<abbr>Steves last blog post..The Intersection of Theology and Experience</abbr>

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

SocietyVs — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:19:52 -0000

"At the bottom of this is a denial of hell, wrath, and divine displeasure with sin; or worse, apathy about those things." (Steve)

Steve's right - there is a denial about this 'hell' thing. But to me it seems Steve has ethics confused - concerning importance.

The person getting a job and becoming a productive member of society is an alleviation of 'hell'. That person was in dire straits and likely would of committed actions in question - maybe causing hell for himself and for others (becoming useless to society). That's a change we can all cheer about. Some confession is an alleviation of some hell none of us know exists - and this takes precedence? Wha, wha, what!

True witnessing is done with one's life - yes speaking is involved - but discipleship is quite the key (or mentoring). If people see the way we treat each other and how this community functions - people will want to join and love joining. We don't really need to accost people in their private time to win them over - heck - live a life worth admiring or run some programs out of the church that mean a lot - people will love ya.

<abbr>SocietyVss last blog post..#300 Post - Do They Know It’s Christmas Time (at all)</abbr>

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

RodneyOlsen — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 22:16:26 -0000

I saw the video yesterday and it was the same line that struck me. "How much do you have to hate somebody not to proselytize?" Powerful stuff.

<abbr>Rodney OLsens last blog post..Cancelling Christmas</abbr>

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

Steve — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:41:37 -0000

This is a frequent rub in urban ministry circles, which often tend to be on the more liberal side of Evangelicalism.

There is such an emphasis on 'getting the guy a job' or 'seeing that she gets justice', which are obviously valid issues, without recognition of the reality that if I get the guy a job and he becomes a productive member of society but goes to hell, then I reqally didn't help him much.

At the bottom of this is a denial of hell, wrath, and divine displeasure with sin; or worse, apathy about those things.

Shame the pagans have to point these things out to us. No wonder we have such a credibility problem!

<abbr>Steves last blog post..The Intersection of Theology and Experience</abbr>

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

Rachel — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:41:20 -0000

We do need more boldness. We're so concerned about looking "weird" we won't witness.

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

AndyC — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:27:47 -0000

How many stay away from Jesus because we do not take the step to talk about Him?

Lord, give us the boldness!

<abbr>AndyCs last blog post..Getting Away From It All</abbr>

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

SocietyVs — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:17:35 -0000

Not much, depends what the good news is.

<abbr>SocietyVss last blog post..Skit: Twas the Christmas Holidays, and We All Needed Rides</abbr>

Re: How Much Do You Have to Hate…

Dave St. John — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:21:39 -0000

Wow. Wow. Wow.

Shane- that is an amazing video. As we like to say around the office, "they don't care how much you know until they know how much you care."