JSYK (Just so you know) I'm a Mormon, but I've never heard anyone of my faith make that argument before. I think it is kind of a straw man to start something with "Mormons often argue..." because without citations it is meaningless.
Shane Vander Hart
· 1 year ago
Far enough, it isn't my post I'm just referencing Amy Hall. I'll see if I can find out her basis for that statement.
But I can't consider your experience as definitive proof either. Stand to Reason does have experience in debating Mormons, so I'm going to assume it is probably from their personal experience, but I will try to confirm that.
Shane Vander Hart
· 1 year ago
Oops - Fair enough - yeah I can type.
WillF
· 1 year ago
Ok - Now that I think about what she said I think I know and recognize what she is saying. However, we usually don't quite put it that way. Personally speaking, I wouldn't hold myself up as being a sign that Joseph Smith is a prophet.
I would give examples of other people who are members of my church maybe, such as President Hinkley, but I think most members wouldn't point to their own lives because most of us recognize we are imperfect. I would say, however, that living the principles of the gospel restored by Joseph Smith have enriched my life, so maybe that it more how I would interpret the test.
I think Mormons usually use the "by their fruits" argument (and now here I go speaking for all Mormons) to encourage people to read the Book of Mormon. Since we believe it to be a "fruit" of Joseph Smith, a translation of ancient scripture, we hope people will taste it for themselves, i.e. read it individually, before they make a judgment of whether he is a prophet.
societyvs
· 1 year ago
I find the LDS test lacking on a few levels - here is my critique of it.
(1) That explicit passage has nothing to say about following a prophet - but more about following teachings that lead us towards God and the inevitable outcome (ie: good actions and such).
(2) Those explicit ideas about a prophet - well (a) seems to point that even a prophet from not amongst the congregation of Israel can give a legitimate claim but they are not to lead you to another foreign god.
(B) is Paul addressing the gospel and if someone else preach contrary to that which has been presented by Paul - let them answer for their claims (likely that whole circumcision thing and the gospel again). But even if not, this idea can be levelled quite cleanly against our own faith on many levels of Christian denominations that one might claim do not truly teach the focus of the gospel...nevermind the Mormons.
Shane Vander Hart
· 1 year ago
You may have, but I want to remind everybody to read the original post as I only have part of it posted on my blog.
All Comments
But I can't consider your experience as definitive proof either. Stand to Reason does have experience in debating Mormons, so I'm going to assume it is probably from their personal experience, but I will try to confirm that.
I would give examples of other people who are members of my church maybe, such as President Hinkley, but I think most members wouldn't point to their own lives because most of us recognize we are imperfect. I would say, however, that living the principles of the gospel restored by Joseph Smith have enriched my life, so maybe that it more how I would interpret the test.
I think Mormons usually use the "by their fruits" argument (and now here I go speaking for all Mormons) to encourage people to read the Book of Mormon. Since we believe it to be a "fruit" of Joseph Smith, a translation of ancient scripture, we hope people will taste it for themselves, i.e. read it individually, before they make a judgment of whether he is a prophet.
(1) That explicit passage has nothing to say about following a prophet - but more about following teachings that lead us towards God and the inevitable outcome (ie: good actions and such).
(2) Those explicit ideas about a prophet - well (a) seems to point that even a prophet from not amongst the congregation of Israel can give a legitimate claim but they are not to lead you to another foreign god.
(B) is Paul addressing the gospel and if someone else preach contrary to that which has been presented by Paul - let them answer for their claims (likely that whole circumcision thing and the gospel again). But even if not, this idea can be levelled quite cleanly against our own faith on many levels of Christian denominations that one might claim do not truly teach the focus of the gospel...nevermind the Mormons.